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    • CommentAuthorreza
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    Hello everyone,

    I am a designer, and have art directed numbers of websites, some in html, others in flash... I would love to be able to do simple websites on my own, for the fun of it, without having to hire a coder / programer to do the tech part. Designers will usually go for software such as Dreamweaver etc... while coders will prefer... coding with softwares such as wrangler etc...
    What should i do? I also heard that nowadays, tables are old now, and you can design entire websites with a table! Dreamweaver only uses tables right? so is it already obsolete? I hope i am precicse enough... help appreciated!!! thanks

    Reza
  1.  permalink
    well i code mostly by hand, but still use dreamweaver as a visual editor, because im a visual person. It's just easier for me.

    Just because you use dreamweaver to code doesn't mean the code is automatically shitty, as long as you know your xhtml and css.
    • CommentAuthortommy
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    photoshop, cut down the images, then use notepad++ to code! <- theirs my tools of the trade
  2.  permalink
    Dreamweaver - depending on the version - does support CSS layouts although it tends to position elements absolutely which can cause some havoc. Version 8 (the latest) is actually a very good piece of software.

    I use Photoshop for creating the design, TextPad to code the site and Firefox to view my work. The Firefox web developer toolbar extension is a must have for any web developer as well.
    • CommentAuthorsmo
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    I use only Dreamweaver 8 and phpMyAdmin for coding.
    • CommentAuthorGustavs
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    I use EasyEclipse for coding and Photoshop for designing. I like Dreamweaver too, but I've had some difficulties with UTF-8 in it.
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      CommentAuthornifkin
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006 edited
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    I've been using some version of Eclipse for a while now, starting with EasyEclipse for LAMP like Gustavs pointed out and in the last couple weeks giving Aptana (which is pretty similar but not as server-specific in its setup) a go.
  3.  permalink
    If I understood your questions correctly, it sounds like you want to learn XHTML and CSS. If that is the case, then I would suggest you start learning XHTML first by coding manually in either Notepad or HTML Kit before you learn CSS. (I prefer TopStyle Pro.)

    tables are old now, and you can design entire websites with a table! Dreamweaver only uses tables right? is it already obsolete?
    I'm not sure I understand...are you still planning on designing web pages with tables?
  4.  permalink
    Tables are old. And I just use Notepad. Regualr old Notepad... I'm not a big fan of the "fancy" programs used to make a website with. Know your code.
    • CommentAuthorGustavs
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    Nifkin, thanks for the link on Apanta - seems very good, I will try it.
    • CommentAuthoreasement
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    photoshop for deisgn
    phpdesigner 2005 and the occasional dreamweaver for coding
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      CommentAuthornifkin
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006 edited
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    Nifkin, thanks for the link on Apanta - seems very good, I will try it.

    Under the hood it's 99% identical to the EasyEclipse releases. It just scales back some of the nerdier control buttons that a front-end coder wouldn't probably need.

    (I've touched plenty of random stuff in my day but I, personally, have never thought "gee, I wish I had a 'restart tomcat' or 'run ant' button right here next to 'save file'" before.)
    • CommentAuthorreza
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    Thanks guys! your comments really help...
    to answer "whereisthatdeafguy"'... i meant, you can design complete website WITHOUT tables (not with)... i had the feeling that software such as dreamweaver still do websites with tables... is that right? because as much as i admire coders, it's all chinese to me... i am a visual person to the bone... It's cool to write code... for sure... but if i could do it visually rather than xhtmlly... i just don't really know how to do... learn dreamweaver if it's good to your professional eyes, or start coding...
    cheers to all,

    Reza
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    Don't misunderstand the recommendation to use DreamWeaver -- you are still basically hand-coding, just with-in a nice application's GUI interface.
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      CommentAuthorkenbacca
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006
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    I start with a good ole pen and paper, then use photoshop to create the wireframe / design.

    I just started using aptana to hand code the css / (x)html, and I LOVE it. I've been so naive for using Dreamweaver just for the syntax highlighting / attribute popups.
    • CommentAuthorkmg
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2006 edited
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    I like dreamweaver because of the many faetures tied into it, FTP, browser/accessibility testing, managing files, coding shortcuts. However being that said i also have a full understanding of xhtml/css and can and do use notepad if i need to develop site if i'm out of town and dont have my computer or access to a computer with dreamweaver on it. I also use photoshop/illustrator to create graphics, but i also use fireworks to create the mockups. very much like mrinlgein said, you can be a serious coder using dreamweaver (if you know/understand the code if you didnt have dreamweaver) but have the nice GUI and utilize many of its features to save time and make the project more manageable. The nice thing about dreamweaver is you are just starting out, is it is a great learning envuroment. You can use the designer view to layout your page then look at the code to learn from what you just did. hen as you advance you customize the code view to your liking and be a serious coder Dreamweaver is the most popular amoung pros for nothing.
    • CommentAuthordahquim
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2006
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    Tables aren't old, just using tables as layouts.

    There are a few places when tables can be an extremely useful asset. Just remember to use tables for what they are meant for TABULAR DATA.

    My two pence
    • CommentAuthordcrean
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2006
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    I like eclipse, but it's a resource hog.
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      CommentAuthorahicox
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2006
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    Dreamweaver and other visual coding tools tend to be just too damn complicated for me. When it comes down to it, for coding all you really want to do is to edit some ASCII. It's good to have a text editor that dosen't want to get in the way of that. It does help to have a text editor that does syntax highlighting though.

    On the mac, I find that BareBones' TextWrangler is just THE BEST text editor around, plus it's free. If you're stuck on Windows, then consider jEdit, which is likewise free (and open source).

    Also you'll want to have firefox + the web developer plugin, too ... that's huge.
    • CommentAuthorano
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2006
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    I go with Photoshop for sketching and creating the images used for the website.
    Then I code in DreamWeaver 8, not because of its many tools and stuff, but mostly for coding easily. I like being able to see the website while I code (thought it's far from WYSIWYG). The best thing about it is that you can easily browse through the tags.
    • CommentAuthorreza
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
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    merci les amis!

    I am clearly a visual person... but i hate not knowing... so i have taken on some html tutorials, get familiar with some of the basics, then move on the stricter xhtml and css... maybe i should go with both learning the code and use textwrangler, and at the same time use dreamweaver to incorporate my designs, and check the code it generates... little by little, i might get somewhere!
    thanks for all your support!

    Reza
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      CommentAuthorpremii
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
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    Photoshop
    notepad++
    Firefox with web developer extension (for CSS)
    • CommentAuthoralixe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
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    Well I have to use Dreamweaver as it is the software that my company uses... though only use it as a text editor.

    Firefox add-ons for Web Developer is GREAT ... especially the one when you change the CSS on the fly because if you use subversion and development server you always have to commit changes and it is quite a pain ... where as with that it is instantaneous :)

    Why the stupid IE browser does have something like that o_O most of the bugs are therefore a pain to fix... Grrr!
    • CommentAuthortomfreakz
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2006
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    Yupz.. same with others fellas,
    I ussualy use photosop for layout and design
    then macromedia dreamweaver for xhmtl/css/php/mysql scripting

    for color picker, I used pixie..
    Pixie is a small application for get colour (hex/rgb) colour information from pointer
    we just pointing the colour area with the mouse and pres ctrl alt c to get the data
    and paste it to text editor, and we will see FFAA33, 0000AA etc
  5.  permalink
    Take it from me...Dreamweaver is still the industry standard. It is only a program and uses whatever you want it to use. It does not use tables to design, but yes you can create tables in Dreamweaver.

    Almost every good designer has moved away from tables, and is creating websites using mostly CSS. This can be done easily in Dreamweaver, as you can attach your style sheet to the page you are creating. Dreamweaver also has a nifty css styles palatte which would probably be of use to you if you are new to CSS.

    My suggestion is to use a combination of an attached style sheet (which you can hand code in dreamweaver) and dreamweaver html pages.

    Good luck!
    Vix
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      CommentAuthorkayloe
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2006
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    Just thought I'd throw my opinion into the ring on this one.

    I've been working pretty closely with a good friend on adjusting his print design skills to suit web design and site development.
    One of the big recurring issues has been how to design web sites that are going to rank highly on Google.
    So, with that in mind, we've focussed on creating sites that are built around content first and design second.

    My tendency is to design first and create content second, so I've also had to adjust to this way of thinking.
    I found this article useful because it outlines the issue quite simply. And it's definitely something to think about as you dive deeper into the ocean of web design and development.

    Happy swimming!
    • CommentAuthorbball2
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2006
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    Photoshop CS2 + Editpad + Firefox w/ Web developer
    • CommentAuthorBREAKER
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2006 edited
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    I'm sure you know by now that you just have to sit and try a few of these tools and see which you're more comfortable with.

    If you are serious about learning to code, then you may want to familiar yourself with W3C's website.
    More specificly HTML 4 Tags, and XHTML Specifications

    You should not think of tables as being outdated, no matter where you hear it from. Tables, just like any other HTML tag have their place and time. Whether they are used to provide structure or to format data.
    I personally find the use div's and tables invaluable for both. It is up to you how you use them.

    Note:
    If you are going to use Dreamweaver or a text-editor, have someone on hand who can help you, this will cut out on the frustration.
    Preview your pages in Internet Explorer, and Mozilla Fire Fox.
    Following W3C's specs will NOT insure the page will look the same in all browsers.
    Try coding a page with Notepad2 or Notepad++ to get a feel for hand-coding, you'll have to sooner or later.
  6.  permalink
    As quite a few others, I have been using Aptana recently and been impressed with it.

    Don't forget to check your handiwork in MSIE as well as Fire Fox.

    And to begin with visit http://www.w3schools.com often!
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