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    • CommentAuthorvarland
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    Since graduating from college with a degree in Information Systems, I've been working full time for a family business. One of my tasks involved re-doing the company website (www.varland.com), while most of my work has been web application design on our intranet.



    The company website was my first public website, and I'm now working on many more, because I've started doing freelance development work on the side. I have a few questions that I'd like to get some feedback on:



    How important is it to design for the absence of CSS?



    I know that in a perfect world all of my sites would degrade reasonably well in browsers without CSS integration or with CSS turned off, but it seems like a ton of work. If a company is paying me well, obviously I'm more inclined to work harder on graceful degradation. However, many of the sites I'm working on now are freebies, since I need to build a portfolio of public sites before I can try to make any money. I don't know what the stats are, but it seems to me that a huge majority of browsers support CSS, and none of the websites I'm working on target audiences who would use text-only browsers. As far as I know there aren't security risks involved with CSS files, so I don't think many people disable them, either. Basically, where do you draw the line, and how do some of you other designers decide how hard to work on non-CSS designs?




    Note: I'm not talking about not designing good cross-browser CSS. I know that's a requirement, even though it sucks sometimes. I also try to structure my documents such that the most important elements come first in the XHTML code (using CSS to arrange the content as I see fit). That way, if CSS is not available, at least the page is presented in a logical order.



    For javascript, do you prefer to do it yourself or use 3rd party libraries?



    There's a big part of me that likes to write all of my own javascript. Sure, I get ideas from 3rd parties, but many times I prefer to look at their code, see what's going on, and redo a lot of it myself. I feel like I can eliminate overhead, have a better understanding of what's going on, and provide (in some cases) better error handling. There's a part of me that's quite a perfectionist, and I hate it when I go to one of my pages and see that there are javascript errors. I know that in the long run using 3rd party libraries is probably more efficient, but I'm not quite ready to do it all the time. What do you think?



    Sticking with javascript, is it okay to make javascript a requirement for a site?



    This goes back to graceful degradation... There are a lot of times when I get frustrated trying to plan for the absence of javascript (which, I think, is more important that planning for the lack of CSS), and my first thought is to include a noscript block with a message about the site requiring javascript. I know that the trend is to design the site to work without it, but I wonder why there isn't a greater movement toward "minimum browser requirements" for websites. Obviously it would be possible to create requirements that would drive people away, but a few basic requirements (javascript on, CSS on, images on, etc.) doesn't seem unreasonable. Thoughts?





    Thanks in advance for any thoughts. I'm trying very hard to improve my skills as a web developer and designer. I feel I've come a long way in a fairly short amount of time, but I know I still have a very long way to go...

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      CommentAuthorJohnRiv
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    How important is it to design for the absence of CSS?

    Very important. Search engine spiders and blind users surf the web without CSS. Plus it forces you to think about semantics in your markup, which will improve your code.

    For javascript, do you prefer to do it yourself or use 3rd party libraries?

    I also prefer to write it myself because of the same reasons you specified. I have my own library of functions that I use often among projects and I like being able just to add the code I need for each project instead of including an entire JS library when I only need to use a couple functions from it.

    Is it okay to make javascript a requirement for a site?

    I'd try to avoid making it a requirement if at all possible. Graceful degradation really is the way to go because you want the content to be accessible to as many users as possible. Also search engine spiders do not parse JavaScript.
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    I think JohnRiv hit the nail on the head with every question. Perfectly said!
    • CommentAuthorPettyRider
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    Requiring Javascript is not always evil. Take Google Maps for example. Could you imagine what it could possibly do without javascript, besides just returning addresses based on a keyword search, or just text directions?
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      CommentAuthorJohnRiv
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    Google Maps does offer a non-javascript option that still works well. Yes their directions are just text based, but they could add turn-by-turn directions with map images (similar to Mapquest) if they wanted to.

    There's no point in requiring JavaScript when the main content can still be accessible without JavaScript enhancements. All that does is alienate users.
  1.  permalink
    I agree that making the core functionality of a site hinge on Javascript is a dangerous approach unless you offer a non-Javascript alternative.

    On the other hand, 90% of users have it enabled -- how low does that percentage have to be to start ignoring them?
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    It isnt always about having it enabled or not. Often times my gmail account will be slow and gmail will admit to this and prompt me with the ability to switch to standard mode (non JS dependent) for faster speed.
    • CommentAuthorPettyRider
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
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    It all depends on the budget. If the client has the budget to cover a non-Javascript alternative to a feature, then by all means, it should be done.
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